Tutorial Tuesday - My Experience with a Problematic Flavor (Coconut)

by /u/isuamadog

Dear fellow mixers,

I make no apologies for what you are about to read. It's all unedited off the top of my head written in real time as i vaped or I would never have gotten it done. If it helps one person, then that fellow was already up shits creek. :)

I have been busy with my personal life lately and can't even seem to whip off a short tutorial for y'all to keep up the ruse of productivity. I got a mix to try from my dear fellow mixer, u/eyemakepizza and it did not sit well with me. I've long suspected that I had an issue with some coconut flavors and it never really bothered me since I don't have to mix with them. As I keep participating in this community I find the desire to mix what other people are vaping to be a part of the community so I knew I would at some point have to deal with this Coconut fear I had and figure something out. Today we are going to talk about having issues with a flavor and what to do about it. If you are like me, you've tried some well liked recipes.... And not liked them. Boooooo. Well, what happened? There could be lots of things. Let's take some examples.

One very well received recipe was Leche De Coco. I tried this a while back so I can't remember now why I didn't like it so much. Many recipe reviews later, I now can somewhat figure out what flavors I like and don't like, what's working for me or not working for me in a recipe. And it seems like I have some difficulty with an aspect of coconut. Which is weird of course, because it happens sometimes and not other times. With no apparent and obvious pattern, I was left with no choice. I had to figure out which flavors were the major offenders and maybe learn them well enough to know how I can substitute if needed to make a mix that suited my tastes.

So, I rounded up all the coconuts I had (minus one which was filed god knows where coconut custard goes with custards in my drawers alas not there). I skimmed atf for percents, asked on the discord, poked around. I usually go a bit above average at atf when making single flavor tests. I find that most people aren't trying to blast your head off with a flavor, and even mix a few to get that single balanced flavor. So, to get a really good sense for each one, I find it best to round up a little and be less conservative. Gives me a better sense of the flavor but still keeps me in that range of usefulness of how it will present in the mix. Since I had six potentially offensive flavors to deal with, I am so not about trying each one at varying percents to ‘see what i taste'. Not happening. Frankly, I should probably check out the components list of each flavor and see if there's any common compounds that are in the ones that bother me, but i figure, what the hell, i'll check and see what's up first and decide if that's worth it later. Not really that sad Keanu if i dont ever vape another coconut, really.

FA Coco' (Coconut) 2%

This one to me tastes like coconut oil. You get that floral sweet scent but it's a bit dull and slightly greasy. Reminds me of when I jumped on the bandwagon 10 years ago and kept making my rice with some coconut oil instead of olive Oil. It's not offensive and im feeling less scared about the rest of these testers. How much does expectation play a part into what one tastes and how enjoyable it is? There's a slight creaminess to this, but now that I have it in my head it's like coconut oil, I imagine the flavor as greasy more than creamy. Frankly, this is surprisingly tasty at 2% which I really didn't expect (probably why). I can almost see vaping this with just a bit more sweetener actually. There *is* a slight coating to the mouthfeel that I consider ‘greasy' which may or may not be that weird pukey component that I dislike. It's sweetish on the inhale but when I switch to the exhale, I just get this burst of… indescribable sort of unctuousness I'm not happy with. Perhaps keeping this under 2% and mixing with some bakery items will cover up the greasy feeling and let it meld into a more coconut frosting type? Shit what do I know? Off hand I'd say try this with Lime, some nut, or a soft cookie. I don't know, my gut tells me to try it with mint. Recipe idea: coco, lime, mint. I will come back to this after I have tried some other samples and recipes. At 0.75 in Leche de Coco, I hardly think this was the offender.

VTA Dessicated Coconut 2%

I remember buying this one with hopes of recreating my favorite ice cream of all time, San Francisco's Mitchell's Ice Cream Shop Macapuno ice cream. I was hoping it would be that baby coconut morsel-y type that is there in that baby coconut ice cream in real life. What I get when I vape it is actually a less funky version of that FA Coco. It's a little less sweet, no real crunchy texture that I would get from chewing real life dessicated coconut chips. However it is much less creamy and, therefore, significantly less greasy feeling. Also, somewhat less ‘fake' tasting as a result. I have a feeling this is my dark horse. I'll likely be subbing this into just about any recipe that uses whatever coconut I do not care for. It's still just a little dry and likely may need some extra creaminess if whatever it's replacing uses it for some added body

2% is potentially low/med; have a strange feeling this could go as high as 4 without being weird. Before I switched the cotton, I dripped a little of the FA on there and the candy boost was totally there. I can see why coconut seems to attract some layering and there is not any one single coconut with the reputation to tick all the boxes or hit all the marks.

JF Coconut 2%

Ah this one also falls into the less creamy category which also means less body, but also less that weird greasy funkiness that seemed to be in FA and not in the VT or JF here. It also seems to be a bit less… idk, coconutty, if that's a thing. Maybe a little (or a lot) sweeter than, say, coconut water, but the accompanying flavor is somewhat more that style of hint than actually in your face as the FA or even the VT thus far. It has a slight waxiness to it rather than an actual creaminess, also which is almost, but not quite a little weird. I think of the three I've tested so far, this is the one i could see adding to add a hint of that ‘special something' without giving it away. I wouldn't say there's no off notes like I sort of feel with the VT. It does have a medium to light body, and a distant funky vibe that I am now thinking is what everyone refers to as suntan lotion. It's that border on ‘fake'. Im saving the TPA for last so watch I come back and revisit this at the end with eyes wide open. Potential uses? Honestly, I could see this pairing with tobacco dessert types for some reason. Caramel. Custard, something you'd want to give a distinct flavor to that sets it apart but preserves the original flavor profile. I will probably try this with some ry4's in the near future as it has a less overbearing coconut flavor and an interesting texture.

FLV Coconut 0.5%

Generally used at 0.25 I decided to solo test at 0.5% to get a handle on whatever is happening here. I am feeling confident. Which probably means this is going to defy my expectations. First few pulls and this already tastes ‘different' than the others. The flavor seems a bit more complex and I have to say, I get a weird slight distracting ‘spice' on the tongue. At first I thought I was imagining things, but it persists. I get a real strong body and a sweet and realistic coconut flavor. I can definitely see why this flavor is always recommended at 0.25; it's strangely potent. I probably should for thoroughness vape this side by side with a 0.25 sampler but I sort of dont feel like I want to. There's some potential for sunscreen, yet it is just threatening to at this level, it never quite turns that way. This is the most interesting of the bunch and in a way defies description. While it tastes familiarly like a natural and less candy like coconut, it has that funky off note that nags at me, an unusual body that isn't really helped by that spicy off note that consistently happens for me. It's not so sweet to cover up other stuff that is happening here. I'm not sure how I can use this, personally. Not that it can't be used, just am I the only one that gets a spice off this? Could I lean into that spice with a coconut, lemongrass, rum mix? Sweetened with a splash of pineapple, possibly?

FLV Sweet Coconut 0.75

Another one of the Usual Suspects. In Leche de Coco at 1.75%, I've been waiting for this. First few pulls and I'm pretty sure my guy is FA coconut. I have to go back and check out some recipes and percentages because iirc I am testing this at 2% and most recipes dont use FA Coco at that high a level. That funky flavor isn't here in flv sweet coconut. In fact, the flavor here is somewhat soft by comparison. Ok, idk if soft is the right word, but, for some reason, I expected some in your face kind of sweet candy coconut. Instead, what you get is a more ‘ripened' (if that's a thing, coconut than the flv coconut counterpart. I'd say that coconut and sweet coconut remind me of the real life comparison between platanos when you make tostones and maduros if that makes sense. Like the unripened FLV Coconut version is fuller flavor, less sweet, some really natural off notes that also make it unique and intriguing while FLV Sweet Coconut is the one that is ready to eat and all the kids love because it is just sweet enough, just creamy enough, just body enough, just natural enough, just almost fake enough. Maybe 0.75 was on the lower end of the testing range? Not sure why I went so low on this one while the atf avg was much higher at 1.25. I think I oddly suspected it was this flavor that caused me the issues and now I'm almost 100% positive that the offender here is that FA. Curious as to why the FA solo didn't seem as ‘offensive' as the recipes I've tried? Maybe I was being dramatic? Who knows? I do see that this one is a solid all around sweet coconut that hits all the marks and can probably tip one way or the other with just a little help from its friends depending on how it's used. Uses/pairings? I could see this being used with a whole host of fruits and things, which is probably why it's in Leche de Coco and Hula, the two top rated recipes on atf that use it. Idk, maybe I'll explore some guava/lychee/mango/passionfruit 3 flavor rotation for a while until I see which combo works for me? Maybe… I can see something giving a nice 123 style simple recipe joy.

TPA Coconut Candy 1%

I think this is the one i had heard mixed reviews on. I must have gotten it a good long while ago and am just now getting to it since I'm not exactly the coconut vaper i had thought I would turn out to be. Regardless within the first few pulls, I somewhat suspect that 1% was a smart choice. The flavor hints at the potential to be potent and powerful if used at the wrong level. Here at 1% it has a fairly sold fake candy coconut vibe that isn't offensive at all. That realistic creaminess isn't there. No particular sunscreen taste at this level, but I could easily see that poking its head around the corner. There's a lingering sweetness here that makes me think there's some sweetener I'm already kind of getting sick of. It's a candyish coconut without and really strange distinguishing notes that also makes it less unique and less interesting. Probably also has a range of applications more so as a result. Ah a quick search on atf pulled up some well rated recipes and I can see now that I got this to make mango sticky rice but never did. Adios 2017! Well, I can see why this would be in there, it has that kind of lingering sweetness that I can see almost merging with the rice to make a ‘sticky' feel. It also has a *kind of* creaminess to it, but not in the same way as the other ones did. This is a bit more cloying sucralose-y than mouthfeel body type. Maybe use this one with more banana custard, cream type recipes that may want to lean sweet and less natural?

Follow-up recipe review

I know I have a coconut candy extra somewhere but I couldn't find it for the purposes of this experiment. I lived. So what did I learn? I'm nearly 80% positive that FA coconut is the issue I have with coconut flavored juices and recipes. I'll likely sub with a coconut that is more fitting for the mix, probably VT for drier more natural coconut if some body is needed. If it's a bolder mix that can cover up those strange off notes from flv coconut, i'll maybe go that in conjunction with some others. I rather enjoyed this coconut desensitization treatment therapy so next I'm going to retest a mix by u/eyemakepizza and then test an unreleased pizza recipe that is hush hush. Maybe.

Midnight by u/eyemakepizza was supposed to be my dear dear macapuno dream in a vape. For some reason, it did not sit well with me. I was fortunate enough to have had pizza send a sample with his Mixer's Club Submission and I saved the rest of this sample to try after these reviews hoping, dreaming I could figure out what didn't work for me so I can adjust the original somehow and get what I want out of the deal!. I reached back for the 10ml sample and yes, there's about 2ml left. I don't remember vaping that whole thing, but I guess I really wanted it to work. As soon as I rewick and take a drag, I swear I get so much spice like pepper or cheap cinnamon with all the zing but no heat. WTF? Am I a pepper taster? What in the hell is in that recipe that could be causing me to have a pepper reaction? This is a zero nic sample, before you even ask. No chance it was oxidized nic. I don't know, but i'd love to hear your ideas. After vaping all those coconut testers, I do think I liked that weird vibe off FA and that spicey off note for the flv coconut I got. I should probably go watch noted and see what reviews were posted in the sub prior for second opinions isn't u/ID10-T a pepper taster too?. Im hoping to post this in the sub anyway and maybe get that one random unsolicited response that validates my existence. I certainly won't be holding my breath.

I have another u/eyemakepizza mix that i'm about to try. This last month's MC sample was a fun mash up theme month. His combination this month involved cee tee cee and coco de leche. As you can imagine I'm pretty excited to test this one out and see if there's a distinct peppery reaction, a funky coconut reaction, or a just im Clockwork Oranged myself into desensitization. The profile was a cinnamon cereal in coconut milk. To my good fortune it did not use flv coconut and the lack of a peppery spice taste led me to believe that some kind of combo between the very low flv coconut in Midnight (0.2%) and one or all of the vanilla's in midnight just melded to give me a peppery taste. Because I had a sample here that I tried at 0.5% and got less spice note and definitely not a distinct ‘peppery' taste as I have heard reported from Vanillas, I just assume it's some combo I can go back and recheck for whenever I have time. For now, I'm satisfied to have a much better understanding of my own tastes and what flavors I would use if i were to try to sub out and even got myself some ideas for some mixes.

Anyway, that concludes this portion of my verbal regurgitation. I mostly wrote this for anyone who has the same issues with coconuts I have had but wasn't able to isolate the issue or just wasn't sure how to go about testing for some kind of issues with a flavor.

Keep sharing what you have learned,

- isuamadog

PS these are kind of hard for me to write on a weekly basis so Im looking at producing one a month. Anyone interested to fill in the gaps, please never hesitate to send me a PM or comment here and just say you'll take a day and share something -- anything -- you know. You'd be surprised with how many new users we have per day, new legislation, how your modest amount of knowledge can help the next guy/gal.

PSS my next project will be testing these damn ry4's and maybe some recipes and posting about the experience. Feel free to comment some ry4's to try, thoughts on anything you read, or whatever burning desire strikes your fancy.

PSSS You can check out prior Tuesday Tutorials in the wiki thanks to u/Apexified :)

PSSSS Another great recipe with coconut you should try by u/Foment_Life here: Coco Bacco