hi. New year's resolution is to do more flavor reviews in a more manageable way. But why on earth would I undertake a review of a DISCONTINUED flavor?!? Well, it saddens me to see 882 recipes get flushed down the drain on atf alone. And let's not forget Cardinal! So, I intend to review a whole gang of Ry4's to get an idea of what makes this profile click so we can remixxx a suitable version of HHG for those who care for these things and because, idk... I guess I want to.

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Check out the beginnings of this project in this Tuesday Tutorial Post.

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Otherwise, let's move on!

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TPA RY4x2

Set up: Asmodus c4, 0.43 Ohms, fused clapton ss316l avs wire at 47 watts.

Testing: Mixed at 5%. Steep time, 22 days

Profile: Ry4 tobacco - caramel with hints of vanilla and tobacco.

Description: I get why people call this a ‘dirty’ caramel. At 5% it really isn’t much caramel and barely any tobacco for my tastes. I’m thinking it’s just those people who think tobacco = bad/filthy. Whatever the issue, it has a slight hint of nondescript tobacco that’s promptly covered by a semi sweet caramel. There’s a bit of familiar sweet finish maybe just the caramel, maybe a bit of sweetener but it takes a while to get there. Really no creaminess to this at all, but there’s still some mouthfeel from the tobacco and the caramel together I suspect since it kind of fades to sweet. The tobacco notes pull the caramel down into that ‘dirty’ realm and you would need more caramel to pull it back up. There may even be a hint of a sour off note in there from the caramel almost more reminiscent of a butterscotch. I’m curious if that becomes more or less pronounced as we take it up a notch in percents as 5% is kind of more the bottom range of motion here.

I really do not get any brown sugar or excessive sweetness. In fact at 5% it really isn’t very excessive in any distinguishable way.

Off notes: A slight butterscotchish-ish off note that lingers like butterscotch ripple sometimes does to me if it isn’t balanced right with something else.

Suggested percents: 0-3% for really just a hint, 4-6 for mid range and 7+ for more full flavor/primary note.

Uses: Obviously well used flavor, familiar to most people. Obsidian pretty widely known recipe but also 3000+ other recipes on atf. This can be used anywhere you have a desire/need for caramel. At 1-3% i can see it blending in, 4-6 standing up in sweeter/dessert tobaccos, bakeries, etc., could probably do the same for creams/custards in the 4+ range. The tobacco portion of this is really more of a base note of dark even at 5% so I think it would barely show up in a mix at much lower.

Other opinions:

1. weird tfa ry4x2 off notes

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DIYFS Holy Holy Grail RY4 v1

Test: Mixed at 6% and steeped 22 days

Description: A much more caramel and sweet version of ry4 than tpa ry4x2. Caramel is less pronounced and I even get a slight coconut creaminess off of it at 6%. Maybe actual coconut of maybe some cream with a coconut vibe, but it’s there. What I’m getting at 6% is a coconut cream upfront with a sickly sweet caramel to follow. I immediately want to crank this up to 8-10 to see if it’s a sweetener type or just from the caramel. I feel in my mouth that sweetness lingering just a bit too long stickiness like sucralose and I'm surprised I never really noticed it before now. I guess just the hint of additional tobaccos are enough to cover it up. However I had stopped using it in tobacco mixes as a sweetener just because I could pick out the distinctive flavoring as low as 2% and found it distracting. I'm suspecting now that it is more about that sweetness than anything else since I have never added sucralose/sweetener to a tobacco mix. Honestly, I'm even wondering right now if this is one of the special secrets that makes this flavor so cultishly popular. I have this weird love hate with sweetness. I like it for a little at first and then get rather tired and sick of it quickly. In my own personal mixes I was much more happy to use straight caramel over HHG or even TPA RY4x2 and in hindsight, suspect this is the reason which makes me wildly reluctant to even bother continuing to clone it when I’m happy with other flavors to make ry2-4 ish blends.

I get a lot more of a brighter caramel overall here and not sure if it’s the sweet that bumps it up. Also, the vanilla is more pronounced. It’s there but at 6%, I’d be hard pressed to pick it out distinctly. It’s more of an overall kind of a dessertish vibe that comes from the presence of vanilla to me, a little bit of brown sugar perhaps? If I were to compare the two, HHG is more of a one shot bright, sweet caramel whereas TPA ry4x2 is more of a tobacco base with caramel notes, ‘dirtier’ because no excessive sweetness. Like TPA is the 80% dark chocolate of the RY4 world while HHG is the milk Chocolate, better on it’s own but distinguishable wherever it is. I cant seem to figure out if there is something creamy in here or not. I think i’ll have to try this up higher to pull that out more.

If Ry4x2 really is half of the basis of HHG v1, then I think we are talking a fair amount less tobacco than TPA ry4x2 and some caramel, vanilla and sweet added. With all that, I really barely get tobacco here at all. Any tobacco muskiness is really quite covered up if not diluted to oblivion.

Other opinions:

1. https://www.reddit.com/r/DIY_eJuice/comments/828zgh/diyfs_holy_holy_grail/ - gets a bit of a chemical off taste. I think that one is sweetener, myself.
2. https://www.reddit.com/r/DIY_eJuice/comments/5rxh3x/diyfs_holy_holy_grail_ry4/

Please comment, particularly if you disagree or if you have any idea of what HHG, HHV, Cafe Napoleon, Cafe French Napoleon, etc is made up of.